Changing batteries

accessories

(Michael Nilsson) #21

Osbrook: sorry for not understanding/remembering, but could you remind me about the £2700 and £3700 cost? Is £3700 the cost for a new battery and £2700 if you buy it from Renault after 10 years?

Also: today I actually spoke to a Renault mechanic that has changed a battery and he said that if you change a charger unit, then you need to re-configure it before it can work. However, if you change a battery, you do not have to re-configure, so this means that you could buy a separate bms and just connect it to whatever cells you can get your hands on (ofcourse, they need to be able to handle up to at least 4,1V/cell or down to 2,75V/cell).

If someone wants to build their own battery I can sell Leaf modules for £40-50/pc. For the same capacity as the standard Twizy battery you will ned 14 modules which will cost £560-£700. Including bms and box it will probably require an additional £1500. The benefit with leaf cells however is that YOU WILL be able to fit an additional battery string of 7 modules and still have room left for BMS etc. That will give you approx. 50% larger battery! So if you want to be able to travel 60miles (with your own battery) instead of standard (rented) 40, this could be an alternativ


(osbrook) #22

Renault price is £2700 - 10% per year renting - What ever that means as they don’t sell the batteries just for total loss.

Some one in Germany said they would make one for £3700

The Charger/controller is a Sevcon and is fully programmable so would need to be configured if a new one was put in. It is not that it is necessarily pair to each Twizy battery just that it is used in more than Renault Twizys.

I would love to make my own battery, but don’t have the knowledge.


High Mileage Increased Monthly Cost of Battery Lease
#23

Hey Ippe, I ususally modify everything I get my hands on. Mustangs, M3s, race tracks and pickup trucks… But back on the Twizy. On this front, the design of electric vehicles don’t lend themselves within the mechanical design, or electrical for that matter to be open to the aftermarket. So now that you revealed your key advantage with battery cells as a supply, I guess I understand your endeavor. It still however will only cater to the very few since as Osbrook puts it - knowledge is the barrier. And in this case, it’s knowledge and be in the position of accessing the parts at a cost advantage. I guess to get a new battery from Renault early requires one simple act - drive it like you stole it and melt the relay lmaoooo seems easier and more cost effective for a new battery :smiley: however I hope your endeavors do pay off Ippe as knowledge would be good for planning the future. :wink:


(Michael Nilsson) #24

Osbrook: Thanks for your clarification. And I agree, the battery value calculation is a little bit strange. Maybe it’s for the insurance companies if it’s damaged? £3700 in Germany seems to be the best price I have seen for a new battery. In Sweden it’s more like £4700…

Crazy Twizy: yes I agree with you, the Twizy does not allow tuning/modification according to “standard methods”. But I guess that’s what we have the forum… I mean, to share information. Ofcourse, it’s still a bit complicated. But not so much that it’s impossible for “the medium skilled person” to do it.

Anyway, I shall not talk to much about it. It might end up in disaster, meaning non functional/destroyed components and that I will be forced to eat my hat etc. But it will not be the mechanical part that that stops me. Instead it will be things like non functional BMS etc. But let’s see.

For the moment I’m planning to take the battery out of the Twizy and look underneath the cover. Main reason for that is that I cannot really see how many components I need to buy before I can start to build my battery. I hope and think that it will be mainly the bms ECU, 2 contactors and some cables. The question is just: will Renault notice that I have lifted the cover to take some pictures inside the battery?


(osbrook) #25

Ippe - I’m skilled just not knowledgable. I have some battery experience as my grid attached house’s lighting has been off grid for the last 2.5 years. I fitted some extra Solar panels that only feed my battery bank (Lead Acid) from which I run the lighting and phone, tablet charging station. I built all my own battery monitoring attachments (IoT) to hook up to the web and my NAS drives.

What I’m only just learning about is Lithium batteries, charging and BMS. Still a way to go. So any info you can provide I will take on board.

Please keep posting back details and perhaps we can pool some knowledge as @kennethnilsen69 has replaced his battery.


(Roel) #26

@Ippe:

perhaps take a look HERE


(Michael Nilsson) #27

Thanks Shthpnz,

That was really interesting! Can’t wait to remove the battery and start the battery build (and ofcourse also Cancel the battery rent…). One thing that I noted was that the battery connector on the Twizy is the same as the one that is used on a Nissan Leaf. Since I have allready disassembled three Nissan leaf batteries by now, I should have at least two of them…somewhere… I also tested to remove the battery connector (to test it on the Leaf connector), and I did not get any warning lamps/symbols in the cluster. It also started without issues after the re-assembling of the connector.

Osbrook: good to know that you have the skills/are used to “hands on” activities. Then I can’t see any stoppers for either one of us. So I guess that the next step for me is to remove the battery and create some sort of wiring diagram that I can share on this forum. I only have one issue: I’m currently re-building my VW Up! in to a hybrid car and I’m not sure that I have the possibility to do both at the same time… :slight_smile: so in worst case, I might need to wait some months before I can start up the work.

But as I said: I really want to see how the battery looks inside… And call Renault finance to Cancel the battery rent crap…


(Michael Nilsson) #28

So now the battery is out of the Twizy. Check the pictures! :slight_smile:



(Michael Nilsson) #29

Below you can see the fuse for the 12V supply:

Nissan Leaf battery module to see if there is any space left if I squeeze it in… It is! :wink:


(Michael Nilsson) #30

I can confirm that the beams are made of solid cast Iron!:

The main power contact below is the same as is used in a Nissan Leaf! Difference is that the leaf has a nominal voltage of 365V… Instead if standard 52V…

The same with the cable connectors inside (for the BMS)



What this unit does, I do not yet know:

So, next thing to do is to draw a scematic to see what is what, but IT will take me a while.


(Peter Szczesiak) #31

Very interesting stuff good luck


(Michael Nilsson) #32

Thanks Peter, I will need it :slight_smile:


(Håkon) #33

That looks awsome!


(Paul Chapman) #34

Interesting topic and great pictures


#35

Hi Ippe.
Nice post, how has the work progressed? Any news?


(Saad Malik ) #36

Urgent urgent

Hi everyone, hope all members are doing great, I need an urgent advice, I bought a twizy in march 2013 from Renault U.K. Dealership and took out battery rental contract. We drove twizy over a period of 1 year and few months and manage to do only 450 miles. One day tried to start, lights were working and speedometer was working but car was not able to move. Called Rac breakdown service, they checked the car and said it’s not holding enough charge, needed battery charging. I sent the car to Renault dealership. They checked the car and said your car and battery are under warranty and this won’t be an issue and they will either get it repaired or replaced. After a month I received a call from them denying to repair/replace the battery as they said we have not driven the car the way it should be. According to them we left the car on storage and that damaged the battery. We cannot keep the car driving for the sake of keeping the battery well and car was driven only when needed. They handed an estimation of over £4000 plus
Vat to replace both the batteries in the car. And funny thing even after paying battery cost we are still not the owner of the main battery. We involved national Renault service line to help us but they came up wit the same thing. After wasting few months we collected the car from Renault U.K thinking we ll get an aftermarket battery or will see if we can get it fixed from outside. We received the car in total dead condition, not even lights worked. Car has been sitting in our garage since then . We are paying £45 a month rental and ended up with a dead car in our garage. Now I want to get rid of it as need space in garage. When I checked the battery agreement, we are still liable for the battery rental even after selling until the company does new buyers credit check and other things for smooth transfer. I am really stuck, I am thinking if we can get it fixed cheaper and still keep it or sell it. I have tried if any second hand battery on sale or any repair service but could not find anything in U.K.

Please assist. Any advice or idea.

Warm regards
[email protected]


(Roel) #37

Welcome to the world of Renault @S44dmr :slight_smile:


(osbrook) #38

Sorry to hear your problems. It might still be a simple fix. The 12v battery is now dead. The 12v battery needs to be in good condition even if the lights work it may not have enough power to trigger the charging relays.

Try jump starting the 12v battery (behind lower front panel) and put on charge. Once it has been charging a while then disconnect the jumper battery.

If this didn’t work I have details of an EV battery specialist who may be able to fix the traction battery. @gummy-b may know more.


(Richard) #39

@S44dmr.'s problem should be of concern to us all.

I just received my renewal notification and it gives me 3 options.

  1. Renew the rental agreement on the battery
  2. Sell the car privately (and battery) and get someone else to take on the battery rental. This includes an option to sell to a scrap dealer
  3. Trade in the car to a Renault dealer

What struck me was that someone is obliged to take of the battery rental in each instance. There is no option not to renew and hand it back - even with the car. Once the car is beyond a certain age the battery rental becomes an on going liability, which we are never going to get out of. I doubt this is legal.

To @S44dmr.'s issue, were we told anywhere in writing how the battery should be treated? They cannot tell us a condition of the rental retrospectively.

Even if it is documented somewhere can @S44dmr. claim on their car insurance. This alleged misuse cannot be worse in the eyes of an insurance company than a normal crash, for which you would normally be insured.


(osbrook) #40

Option 3. Is there a time limit given on this? ie. tell RCI that is what you will do and then don’t do it for a few years.