Continuous 0.2 Amp draw on 12 battery


#1

Hello !
I just purchased a twizy 80…
supposed to be perfect, But one week later, already have problems
12V battery flat after 2 days of not driving !
I looked the battery, when I remove the wire I hear some relay clicking.

I measure this relay draws 200milli Amps continuously when twizzy off. 24h/24 !!
on 24 hours it makes 57 Ah of consumption, very normal I find the battery dead !

not already indentified where is this relay.

Does anyone have this kind of continuous draw from a relay ?

Thanks !


#2

sorry 57Wh or 4.8 Ah @ 12V
means the battery will be empty (50%SOC for a 14Ah lead acid battery)
in less than 2 days.

and dead after 4 days without connecting the car to the plug.
(will recover partly but the end gonna come early)


#3

I found the relay noise comes from a box in front of the car, just above the speed meter. it seems this box is a box used for powering directions lights and warning.

So it doesn’t look to be some relay do it selfed by some other owner.

can someone tell me if his twizzy make clicking noise somewhere inside when unplug/plug the 12V battery ?

Maybe this is normal, and also the reason why everybody have strangely dead batteries ?


#4

I measured my current consumption today and it was 0,08A when totally idle and off. Which is still a bit too much, I think.


#5

Thanks a lot for this information, Nakos. Do you hear a relay clicking when the 12V battery is on/off ?
(easy to do it, just need to remove the 60A fuse)

to make more simple, we can just
-unplug the main fuse 60A and hear if some relay is on when no charger plugged, twizy totally off
-remove the fuse and put Amp meter at the place of fuse (sorry, English is not my mother language)


#6

at least 80mA is already much better than mine, but that’s still enough to kill the battery in a few days.

200mA can be a relay consumption.

Why we can have a relay continuously ON ?


(Peter) #7

I’ve just pulled the 60A fuse on my Twizy and can confirm a relay clicks each time the fuse is inserted and each time the fuse is removed.

I’m surprised this is the case as my Twizy only draws ~12mA from the 12v battery when parked.


#8

I have a broken 12V charger and this is why I am in it this time.
Yes, relay is clicking when you remove 12V ground.
I think we should do a long-term monitoring to let the system come to a complete halt. I’ve heard it powers down gradually over minutes after turned off.


#9

Yes I would recommend pulling fuzes one by one to see if it helps


#10

only 12mA ! this is Okay !
I don’t think an ordinary relay would draw only 12mA. Maybe this energy comes from the main battery, then ?

But I thought the main battery is supposed to activate energy out only when the can bus communication asks for it ?

Pulling fuses : right, I’ll do this


(Toby) #11

I had to replace my charger when my one was draining the battery and not charging properly. The traction battery charges the 12v when the car is off.


#12

Hi Toby

Charger drawing electricity from the battery ? interesting
Who has the twizy electric schematic ?
Did you keep your old charger ? would be interesting to find what’s faulty inside.
I would be interested to look inside.

I’ve found mine have an insulation defect, I have not yet measure the defect, only got a good electric shock when using metallic tools (removing plastic carters) while Twizzy pluged in.

You mean the traction battery charges the 12V battery when the car is on.


(Toby) #13

The traction battery does not need the car to be on to charge the 12v.

I have a Ctek sense on the battery and I can see it adding charge over blutooth even when the car is off.

I do have the old charger. Not sure what I plan to do with it yet.


#14

If like this, we should never find the 12V battery discharged, even if has totally lost it’s capacity.

Maybe the charger is programmable and they are not all set up the similarly ?

When you come to switching power devices, can be very hard to repair, normally you can call this dead.
But I am very curious, and as a technical, I hate so much ignore what’s inside.

Could you post some picture of your dead charger’s inside ? I suppose it must have at least some power IGBT dead and shorted at least


#15

Early chargers DO NOT recharge 12V while off. It’s later models only.
As for me, I am going to make an external recharge system with extra 12V battery in place of a water tank.


#16

Thanks for the info, Nakos. Looks like they had problems with some devices pumping too much on 12V batteries when car off, buyer found it dead a few days later like me. Then decide to charge it also when car off, from the traction battery that is so big.

Not already got time to look after consumption when gradually removing fuses, but I’m thinking installing a battery shut off .

Someone do know if the newer chargers are software compatible with 2012 traction
battery ? Obviously when we plug the twizy, the charger does inform the battery on can bus, then battery opens it’s charging port.

if they changed the protocol, the new charger may not be able to charge properly.

On my solar system, I notice today the charger draw is irregular. Pumps low/pumps high about 1 time per second. I don’t know if this is the correct behaviour, I got about 5 volts difference between strong draw to lighter draw.
225 to 230 V
by the way, this is not very good for my inverter. I really need some device to be able to choose how much watts the charger is allowed to draw on my solar system. Don’t know witch one.


(Toby) #17

I swapped from a 2012 charger to the brand new charger, this solved the problem. It was plug and play and I did it in under an hour. The new charger charges the 12v even when the car is off. My old one did not.

I have all the part numbers.

New charger was £600 plus vat

It fixed the problem.

The charger now also shuts off when the battery is full and the fan stops. The old one did not.


#18

Very good info Caddyshack, Thank you. I they changed something, they made the part compatible with older models, at least, good.

Nakos : You were right. As I measure with analogic Ampmeter, I got the reading immediatly and that was enough for me. But if I keep longuer at measuring, the intensity draw really get changed in 3 steps.
at the final step, waiting a few seconds, I have only 60mA left !

Electronic stuff is “living”, not like passive resistance.

But this is still enough to kill the battery within a few days. 7 days to reach 50% SOC, 14 days to dead.

Lost of people go this AGM battery swelled. I think this happens this way :
1/battery is discharged slowly during a few days of non-use
2/when the user take the road, the charger pushes strong amp to recharge it, from the traction battery but this kind of battery should have a max push Amp of a few 2 or 3 amps, if go over, the gasses emitted inside can’t be recombined and the pressure get high, swelling the cover. This would be too much Amps at charging.

This kind of battery can allow strong draw but can’t be charged strong.(a)

now why have too much amps at on the road charging ?
in fact, it’s impossible not to have : on the road, the charger have to immediatly compensate for head light and other stuff. the charger will not know how much amps are pulled, will only see the low voltage. Then, the charger will push strong amps at least to compensate the draw.

Normally the 12V battery would work well if never discharged, it will provide important energy reserve for lights and safety.
But within a few day of no use the twizy, I get discharged and this is the problem.

The solution is to allow the charger to charge from the main battery even twizy off, that’s what they did in the newer versions, and then the 12V battery would live much long.

I got the problem because the battery was so dead that it was totally discharged after 1 or 2 days without use.

As I have an old charger, I think the way to go is to shut off electricity to the 12V battery everyday, this way I’ll keep the 12V battery in good condition. Always keep well charged and seldom work.
it will not be possible to keep the clock on twizy, but that’s not big problem.

(a) never seen an AGM battery on a vehicule before, Renault problably decide to use it as it is care free, but the conceptor forgot the reasons why open batteries are still used on vehicles !!
now solved the problem with charging even twizy off.


#19

Update :
I let the Ampmeter 1 hour at test. Now with the brand new battery After that, consumption becomes as low as 20 mA !! With just a little up when the anti start led flashes.

Well I don’t feel confident with that. 20mA would not empty my old battery within 1 or 2 days. This electronic does what it wants but in the facts it drains the battery.

I removed the fuse and installed a provisional battery switch. Later will install another inline fuse on these lines. This way no need to touch the car’s wires at all.


#20