Miles from a Twizy


(system) #1

I am currently locked in to a argument with Renault uk about my Twizy and the mileage im getting.
The book states 61 miles per charge and yet when it’s fully charged it reads 34 miles and i get about 23 if I am lucky.
The battery’s have been looked at by Renault and there is no fault on them found.
That said I feel I bought the Twizy under false information from the sales booklet about miles per charge as well as being over charged about battery rental by £10 pcm.
Renault claimed it is plus vat yet the sales book states inc vat and road side assist. I feel very let down by Renault after 3 weeks of arguments about this and nobody doing anything about it. My dealer who sold me the Twizy said we don’t want it back there to hard to sell anyway. I am furious and am no going to trading standards about false advertising regards to performance and range. Renault finance are being simply awful on undoing this agreement after just 1000 miles use in 5 months and giving them time to resolve all the issues. I shall keep you all posted as to the outcome as I feel this is important to all owners of the Twizy as to were you stand to the Renault’s performance.


(system) #2

I must admit 23 Miles per charge does sound quite low. Unless you are driving it hard at 50 mph most of the time. But even when fully charged the Twizy will estimate the range based on your previous driving style which might be accounting for a lot of wind resistance and brake usage, hence the 34 mile readout (sounds about right for the way I drive mine around London). However, by the tone of your post, mentioning trading standards etc., I worry that you would not be happy with the car even if it did deliver 61 miles per charge and since Renault have already obliged you by checking the state of the batteries I think you are getting a fair enough deal. Perhaps a more investigative and analytical approach may increase your chances of finding a genuine problem with the car, if there is one, rather than assuming a conspiracy against you.


(Normsthename) #3

Are you using the range estimator or the Battery Gauge to judge Mileage?
Each night I drive my Twizy 2 Miles Flat out to my house along a Fast A Road.
Next Morning the range will show anything as low as 28 Miles available after a Full Charge.
But after driving the car to work 8 Miles which has a mixture of roads the estimator will show up to 43 Miles available!
Returning in the evening the range will drop because it is mainly uphill.
I arrive home with as little as 12 Miles available showing on the range estimator after only 16 Miles travelled.
But the actual Battery gauge will be showing 7 or 8 Bars available.
Which in real terms in Winter 8 Bars x 3.5 equals actual 28 miles left.
In warmer temperatures 8 Bars x 4.5 = 36 Miles available after already travelled 16 Miles.

Andy


(system) #4

I like the Twizy a lot and i dont really want to get rid of it. But Renault care to customers is just awful in many ways never getting back to you when they say they will. And the dealership telling me in a nut shell they think the product is a white elephant and dont want to take it in on a part exchange says it all i feel. My driveing style is slow but sure about 3 miles a day to town and back around 20 - 25 mph so not hard driveing and all flat roads.


(Lightly) #5

Sounds like you are having a nightmare, must say that my Twizy has never delivered so few miles, even when below zero temperature. Currently I get about 36 miles in this cold weather, and half my journey is at 50 mph. When it was + 10 degrees, I was getting 40 miles easily.
Why do they not change your batteries ?


(system) #6

My understanding is that the battery rental is including VAT. In our case - a flat £45. We’ll check and get back to you. We haven’t had our first payment go out yet.


(Jeffinergiraffe) #7

Just to add to what my husband Les just said, I have the rental agreement here which states that the rental of (for us) £45 a month is inclusive of VAT at 20%.


(mender) #8

I thought it was misleading in the brochure that it says range 62 miles without any qualification but in the back of the 2012 Renault UK range brochure price list it says 30 miles extreme use-which is very different. Add to this the fact they only replace the battery if it does not keep 75% charge, there is a possibility of very poor range.

Your 23 miles sounds very low, even if left outside in -5 overnight and used flat out full speed-sounds like there is a fault whatever. My experience was that the dealer was hopeless but once a case was set up with Renault UK customer services with a named complaints handler, things got sorted.

I would set up a case now stating that the vehicle is not fit for purpose and you are giving them one final chance to fix it before formally rejecting the vehicle.
This will only work if you bought the car new from a dealer, google the process of rejecting a car to see how to do it.

I have done it before and it was easy enough once the manufacturer realised I was serious and was following the legal written process. With another car, it got fully sorted and was returned with a tank of fuel, a full valet and a free next service.

The annoying thing in this is that it could be fixed and be a great car-you like it when it works-but your dealer sounds about as interested and helpful about ZE as mine was.
Let Renault UK know this and get it sorted out. I used “live help” on the Renault web site, filled out the box with my phone number and they rang me back.

Good luck-hope it sorts for you.
PS Battery hire is including VAT.


(Normsthename) #9

Are you saying that with a Full charge you only get 23 Miles and the Battery Bar gauge shows empty?
If that is the case then there is a definite fault.

Andy


(system) #10

Hi folks,

I hate to say it. (maybe it’s because I’m an automotive journalist and we’re pretty used to there being a difference between MPG and actual MPG) But quoted figures never ever work.

It’s the same for EVs as it is for gasoline cars. You’ll never get the same figures as the MPG in the book or the range in the book, because the tests used to obtain those figures are really unrealistic for day-to-day life.

That’s not Renault’s fault, or any other automaker’s fault. They’re just having their cars tested according to the New European Driving Cycle. That’s an EU standard, and nothing to do with car makers.

This article may help explain figures, as will this, by my [URL=“http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1076468_unrealistic-gas-mileage-ratings-widen-gap-with-reality-in-europe”]old colleague Antony Ingram.

Renault and everyone else is aware of the problem. And Renault, to its credit, when asked, has always given a range of mileage rather than a specific figure. For example, the Zoe, which I drove a few weeks ago, has an NEDC rating of 130 miles per charge. Renault itself says “Between 60 and 90 miles per charge, depending on use.”

Mileage really does depend on all sorts of things in an EV. And because an EV travels less far per charge than a petrol car, we notice more readily when the range isn’t what we’d expect of it.

For example: I can drive 40 miles in my Twizy, gently, using eco-techniques and only myself on board. Add my wife, or one of my children, or even my dog, and the range will change. When it’s cold, the battery pack is unheated, and therefore can’t give up its electrons so easily. Therefore, it tends to travel less far than when it’s hot.

Water will also affect mileage, as extra energy is required to push the car through water. This is especially problematic when going through puddles or standing water. The same is true of a petrol car: you just don’t notice it as much, because the car gets refilled every few weeks instead of every night. It can also travel several hundred miles per refuel, instead of 30-60.

The Twizy is the smallest EV on the market today with four wheels. It also has one of the most un-areodynamic fronts. While its size helps it to be efficient (It uses about half the energy to travel somewhere compared with my Nissan Leaf) it still suffers greatly when things aren’t quite right. That includes wind, poor weather, under-inflated tyres, the lot.

Ultimately, if you want to get cross with anyone, get cross with the folks who set up the NEDC. It’s done in a lab, and not on a real road. And it doesn’t simulate real-world driving any more than *Test Drive Unlimited *replicates driving the roads of Hawaii.

Sorry to say, but I think you may have a tough fight on your hands, and ultimately, are tackling the wrong body. Scream and shout at NEDC by all means though: we need to change these outdated tests BUT we also need to change people’s expectations and educate both buyers and sellers on what real variations in range are.

Nikki.

P.S. I once got 20 miles out of my Twizy. That was because I may have been hooning it a little (off road, of course) At the other end, I once got 45 miles out of it. I’ve got 103 miles out of my Leaf (once… it was painful) but usually get about 60 miles. Again, on a crazy day, it got as low as 35. :smiley:


(James Cook) #11

May be obvious, but have you checked your tyre pressure? Under inflated tyres will greatly reduce the range of an EV


(system) #12

Hi Folks
i got my twizy at Christmas and get arond 35 with normal driving the best I’ve got is 41 and worse 24 . I live in a hilly area and keep outside its what I expected during winter but I’m sure it will improve during the warmer weather ( when it finally bloody arrives !! )


(system) #13

I have a 6000 mile, 3 year contact and get charged £40.83 plus vat at 20% which means I pay £48.99


(system) #14

That sounds good ! I pay £45 inc vat for 4500 miles


(system) #15

Ok thanks to all you that have replied to this. Renault Tunbridge wells have said they are 100% not takeing the car back even on a trade in as they claim there poor sellers and said if we did it would be about 3k for it A 1000 mile technic with all the options. Renault finance tried to battle it with them but they were told to sod of in as many words. I asked them to trade it in for a Twingo Renault sport at 17K but they simply said no don’t want it go else were with it. I am furious to the point i told the sales manager he sold me a white elephant with all the promises that he would take it back part exchange on a ZOE when launched but all lies. I shall now take this up with Renault UK and claim unfit for purpose as per our citizen advice centre claims is possible after looking through my paper work. They still keep taking an extra £10 on my lease saying no it’s plus vat even though the sales book states other wise. All lies and complete misunderstanding from sales staff that have no interest in the ZE range at all so it seems. Lack of knowledge and no care for the customer after so it seems due to a low commission on the ZE cars = poor sales man. I made sure Renault finance was aware of this and Renault customer so called care. Mind they did admit a lot of teething issues with twizy and sales man knowledge at showroom level. Then went on to claim they are having loads of issues with ZOE already before launch due to battery,s and the 2nd gen having charging issues…? My god it’s a joke and no wonder Renault have such a terrible reputation in there products. As I say I shall keep you posted on what Renault Uk do about taking the Twizy back. As owners im sure you are keen to know how Renault behave about this and any problems thrown there way about Twizy.


(mender) #16

Make detailed notes of these conversations, times, dates etc and start the process of formally rejecting the car. They have not fixed it after being given chance to do so and are now being unhelpful. The reason why they sell poorly is due to Renault themselves, not the Twizy-and that is certainly not your fault.

Also check your finance agreement that if you have paid 50% you can hand it back, etc-get some professional advice asap and get on with it.
For a start, the brochures are misleading when they admit in another brochure 30 miles not 62-that text should be in the main brochure, not hidden in the back of a full range price list where they think you won’t find it.

Good luck with it, sorry to hear it has gone this way for you :’(


(askho) #17

I don’t think there is much chance of you rejecting a car because it won’t do the claimed mpg. This is because there are too many variables, ie drivng style, condition, terrain etc etc. The claimed mpg or in this case the range can be taken with a pinch of salt as it is done under very artificial conditions, but according to EU law, so Renault has every right to make that claim. True life drivng will never reproduce that performance. It’s the law that needs changing and people have been campaigning for that for a while now.


(Lightly) #18

I will give you £3100 for it :slight_smile:


(system) #19

It isn’t the law – but the way in which mileage is tested, both for fuelled cars and electric cars. :slight_smile:


(askho) #20

Law might not be the right word, but certainly EU rules. The tests are done in such artificial conditions that it is certainly not representative of real life driving conditions, so never take the fuel consumption claims too seriously. That’s why mags like What Car has a True mpg section.