After owning a Twizy and experiencing the Renault dealerships, would you feel safe buying another Renault car?
For as much as I love my Twizy, I would agree with anyone who says that it is flawed and at times the build quality does seem questionable. I wonder if this is just with the Twizy or if all Renault cars suffer with this?
I personally do not like the Renault brand at all and would never have bought a Twizy if anything else was available.
For me the brand has lost its way over many years with a poor range of mediocre cars with a strong history electrical (:lol:) and quality problems, middle of the road dealers and no brand assets other than a reasonable reputation for hot hatches of late.
If you could mix their fabulous design studio (eg Avantime) with Japanese quality build and the skill of German branding/resale values, then I would rethink, but Renault management is poor and the brand has slipped below Kia and Hyundia even.
The total lack of demand has seen the Laguna and Espace dropped from the UK-the budget brands are better built, have better warranties and a better brand image-what has Renault got that would ever make you a fan of the brand alone? I even prefer Dacia, which are old Renault tech built in Romania!
The brand is lost, there is no “hook” for buyers, depreciation is staggering making ownership expensive, Dacia will undercut the range with quality products (see Skoda/VW) and Renault is not premium enough to survive the Koreans. ZE could be a stand-alone brand.
To add insult to injury, the management is not dealing with the issues and the branding/advertising is thoughtless and detrimental to the brand.
I think some of your points are valid, but you are expressing your personal view rather than the total facts.
For a start, Renaults range of vans is very comprehensive, and they offer excellent value for money.
To say that they are below Hyundai and Kia, is a compliment to these aggressive Korean manufacturers, who have upped their game so much in the last 5 years, it is a fact that many manufacturers now lag behind them, including probably Vauxhall, Peugeot, Citroen etc.
The Renault Sport brand is second to none, I cant think of another manufacturer who makes such an exciting version of a standard car, and these sell very well.
I genuinely think that manufacturers build cars to break on purpose, so yes renault do have electrical issues that are hard to fix, but not if you have the correct equipment, and these repairs are where the money is made, as cars are cheaper today than they have ever been, with longer servicing intervals. The cars need to break, so the manufacturers can make some money.
At least renault has been brave enough to go off at a tangent with the ZE range, personally I think it will fail, but better minds than mine have decided not. We surely live in a time where it wouldn’t hurt if we never made another car for 12 months. I think the motor industry is teetering on the edge of disaster, maybe ZE will make it through.
The one area Renault have got it right is the Twizy drivetrain. brushless Motor, controller and 50v setup are well chosen. These twizys could still be running in 30 years time, on smaller replacement battery packs.
Most other electric cars run with much higher voltages - which are actually very dangerous, but people haven’t worked that out … yet.
I wouldn’t want to be in any crash sitting on top of 300v circuits
I also forgot to mention, the Renault engine department.
Their 1.5 dci unit is a cracker, and well recognised for this in the motor industry. It is widely used in many Nissans, including the Quashqi, which I believe is shortly to become Britains best ever selling car.
Mercedes are using the same unit in their new A class, I suspect Renault technology is in many more places than you realise.
Oh nearly forgot, they are about to win the constructors title in F1 as a partner to Red Bull
not bad I would say
I would agree there is much personal experience which guides my thoughts on Renault and also that RenaultSport (as said) and the vans (overlooked these) are competitive.
The 1.5dCI engine is well regarded too.
I also agree that the Koreans have taken on and beaten many manufacturers such as Vauxhall (another god awful brand-ditch it, give me Opel), Peugeot and Citroen.
I am in the motor repair trade and find Renaults to be hassle most of the time, particularly the electrics. Many owners are desperate to get rid-most of the ones I repair are being patched together to be able to sell them as soon as possible.
The brand image is confusing-what are Renaults’ key selling points? We have the “normal” cars, Dacia, ZE and RenaultSport all with differing markets, all at the same dealer with no clear branding. Nothing excites me about Renault, only fills me with dread-the Twizy as said is so simple and only available at Renault, that I was persuaded.
In fairness, apart from dealings with ZE and Renault head office it has been reasonable and the car is good.
I always said I would never buy a French car, including a Renault. Oops.
Renault have tried to put a lot of technology into their cars to stay competitive with cheap imports however they have not always used the quality of hardware necessary. As the cars has a lot of things that can and do go wrong they have become more complex to work on and when things do go wrong there are a lot of very poor repairs being done.
On the Surface they look good and have a good level of equipment, but poorly implemented.
I hope the ZE range is Renault trying to correct this and turn around their poor reputation gained over the last few years. If Renaults were really as good as they should be then the 4 year guarantee would not be necessary to get people to buy them again.
The Twizy is a real attempt to break the Renault Mold. As others have said the drive chain, control system, and suspension is well designed and made. (okay the suspension is a little sporty for most drivers). They were designed by a separate team and worked with Nisson who are not yet known for being as poor as Renault in the general car market. The Twizy isn’t made in France, although not sure if Spain is going to be better.
So in answer to the OP - No I would not buy another Renault ICE, however I see ZE as different and have yet to set a reputation as a vehicle.
Likewise, I persuaded myself that ZE was a new dawn, a separate brand, was well engineered and simple so I bought one.
I prefer Dacia to Renault because they are using older and less complicated tech.
I have had numerous new cars and learned the hard way that using tech/spec to sell a poorly manufactured car is a wrong move-better to buy simple and well engineered.
A bit off topic, but…
Many will laugh, but this is why I rate the Perodua Myvi so highly-at £6000ish new it uses last gen Toyota (pre drive-by-wire) and later Daihatsu tech, eg the excellent chain driven 1298cc vvti engine and is impeccably built in a state of the art Malaysian facility controlled by Toyota. Our family has done 120,000 hard in Myvis with no/zero/zilch/nada faults-except having to replace the upgrade headlight bulbs which we had fitted ourselves. They have no brand image, they are just cheap and good.
Our first one bought for £6250 inc metallic in 2007 was sold in 2010 for straight cash (we had already bought another Myvi so this was surplus) back to a main dealer for £3000 after 68,000 miles and with some minor accident damage; £3250 for 3.5 enjoyable years in a new roomy 5 door car with air-con etc with only routine servicing every 10,000 miles @ under £100 each time-no cambelt either.
My way of thinking is that the very cheapest car in this day and age should be 100% reliable and durable (like the Myvi); after all its design brief is to transport people.
Then, if you spend more you get better trim, then more for better dynamics etc etc, so to spend £30k on an Espace which breaks weekly and is rated the least reliable car in Europe would “upset” me.
If Dacia follow Skoda’s lead and use only quality tried and tested parts, including some last gen tech off the mother company and actually put their cars together well, they should flourish as a new brand. Where does this leave Renault? With a shaky brand image, over-compilcated unreliable tech and the Koreans bettering them in most areas.
It is an interesting topic and will be interesting to see where the following sub-brands are in a few years time:
I think passenger car sales will be lost more and more to the Koreans or premuim as no-one wants a middle of the road car that goes wrong and costs a fortune in depreciation.
RenaultSport and Commerical vehicles will do ok.
Dacia has an unrivalled opportunity to undercut the Koreans and beat them at their own game; there are no other true budget manufacturers out there any more, other than perhaps Perodua (who?) and Proton (ugh), so if marketed and handled properly should, in time, be popular like Skoda.
ZE will get stronger and stronger with the launch of the ZOE if marketed and handled properly.
I work with a colleague who is quite high up in Ford. He thinks that Europe needs to lose some brands… Citroen with their newDS range havestarted to redifine their range… Peugeot have a really messy range with no rising stars. However, Peugeot and Citroen are the same company and help out Ford with engines. That leaves the question of Renault… I agree with what is said about Renault Sport and the commer ial side, but their passenger cars are not desirable. Always said I wouldn’t buy French but trusred the Renault brand to buy the Twizy.
The market is now moving steadily to both budget premium brands with good warranty or trad premium brands with good resale values-the middle of road market of Renault, Citroen, Vauxhall etc is struggling as it is neither.